Timing the Rapture in Revelation
At the Gospel in the End Times, Nelson Waters has another well written article, this time about the timing of the rapture. He argues against a pre-tribulation rapture (as do I - it may be the popular idea people want to hear, because it involves less suffering, but the evidence is against it.) Waters full article HERE says:
One of the hottest questions in the Church today is “will there be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?” Does a rapture occur prior to the 70th Week of Daniel beginning? There are debates and arguments about how to interpret the text of 1 Thessalonians and Matthew in determining the timing of the rapture. It would be so convenient if Revelation clearly stated when the rapture occurs. There isn’t a clear picture of the rapture in that book, but it does show us when it doesn’t occur! This is probably shocking to most readers.
In order to “see” clearly what is occurring in Revelation, we need to know how to interpret this book and the order of events. Specifically for this study, we need to know when the 70th Week of Daniel begins. Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers call this 7 year time period “The Tribulation.” If we know when this period begins, we can look for clues to see if the saints are raptured before or after this point. If we find clues that the saints are not with Jesus after the beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel, then the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory is all but disproved.
How can I say this? Let me explain. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul gives us the Bible’s clearest picture of the rapture. Proponents of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, proponents of a Pre-Wrath Rapture (a rapture prior to God pouring out his wrath), and proponents of a Post-Tribulation Rapture (a rapture concurrent with the second coming of Jesus) all believe this passage is describing the rapture:
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:15-17 NASB, emphasis mine)
Notice that after the rapture event, the saints will always be with the Lord. This is the critical fact. If we see a vision or picture of Jesus in the Book of Revelation that occurs after the 70th Week of Daniel has begun and the saints are not with him, the rapture could not have happened yet because the saints will always be with the Lord from that moment forward.....
As John’s vision unfolds, we see God the Father sit upon his throne, Jesus (the Lamb) is found worthy to open it, the elders and living creatures sing a song of praise, a great multitude of angels praise the Lord, and Jesus opens the first seal. I don’t want to copy that entire passage into this post so here is a link to Rev. 5:1-6:1. Please give it a short read.
Now that you’re back, let’s “look” at the scene in heaven:
God the Father is present and seated on this throne in verse 1
A mighty angel is present and issues a challenge in verse 2
The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures are present in verse 6
The seven Spirits of God and the Lamb are present in verse 6
A great multitude of millions of angels are present in verse 11
Finally in Rev. 6:1, Jesus opens the first seal
Do you see who’s missing? The saints! They are to always be with the Lord after the rapture, yet they’re not there. Can you imagine them not being present to praise Jesus for opening this scroll like the angels are? No. I can’t imagine it. The reason is that they aren’t in heaven yet. The rapture doesn’t occur before the Tribulation begins, it occurs in Revelation 7."
There is much more - and you will never be disappointed reading his blog articles.
One commenter noted:
I am also reminded of this passage in Revelation 6:9-11:
“9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O [k]Lord, holy and true, [l]will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.”
How do the pre-Tribulation folks interpret this passage, which clearly shows these “saints” were martyred DURING the great tribulation? (This means the Holy Spirit must also be active during this time; He is not taken out of the world; otherwise no one could be saved.)
Another interesting point is that in verse 11 we see that these saints are “given” white robes. They do not put them on. Why? Because they have not yet been resurrected and therefore do not yet have their glorified bodies.
Later, however, in Revelation 7:9-14 we see that the saints are now “wearing” their white robes (vs. 9), i.e., they have now been resurrected, gathered safely in heaven, and are in their glorified bodies. Verse 13 reiterates this: “These IN white robes”
I commented on the article myself and said:
As I noted in my last book, Antichrist 2016-2019: “Revelation 6:9-11 describes martyrdom of the saints “When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, ‘How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?’ And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.” Dead tribulation saints are requesting vengeance (God’s wrath) but there is no wrath or rapture of the faithful yet.”
Of course if the matter had 100% clarity there would be no debate and just one opinion on when it happens. For a full length argument against the pre-trib rapture idea that I find very well done (as does Nelson Waters) read Alan Kurschner's Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord.